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cailo-
First up I want to congratulate everyone on a great start to the Legion expansion. This old guild has been through a lot through the years and to see as many as 50 people online at a time is a tribute to everyone wanting to keep Twelve going. There are no foreseeable dramas on the horizon, there is a zero tolerance policy on jerks (with a few exemptions to some of our veterans), and Twelve has never been such a welcome place for returning players to come catch up and kill magical dragons.

That said we need to stay on the front foot and thats why I want to tell a plan for raiding in Legion. We're not a full on hard core raiding guild any more we're part time 2 days per week. Twelve though has had a history of competitive raiding and most people don't just want to raid they want to do well, thats why they play the game and that is what members want. This expansion I would expect nothing less than a heroic clear of each tier of raiding content to be a bare minimum and a couple of mythic bosses.

FARMING RUNS vs PROGRESSION RUNS
This is an important. We want to take everyone to every boss. That said it's no fun to be wiping over and over again so taking everyone can be counter productive. There for the raid leader has full right to sub people out. By all means on an easy boss we can take a few carry alongs, but when its business time we need our A team and if someone is under performing we will sub you not because we hate you but because we want to have a good time.

LOOT RULES
Core raider tanks get priority loot, it just helps with progression. Main spec > Off spec, though subject to loot council. Such a situation when a peice of loot will be given priority to someone would be if when someone who shows up to every raid wants someone will get the loot item over someone who has been to very few raids. If we get any pugs (I hope we don't need them) they will still get the loot if they roll highest, its only fair.

RAID TIMES
Wednesday and Sunday night 7:30 to 10:30. We could change this if it doesn't suit many people but that has worked well in the past.

RAID COMPOSITION
This we will see on raid night. With as many people as we have around at the moment it's too hard to tell.

CHAT CLIENT
We will be using discord. Get the client, but if thats not possible just use the web browser. The advantage of the client over the web browser link is that the client has push to talk, the web browser link only offers mute or noise activated.

~~

If anyone has any questions or anything else to add go crazy.

** UPDATE Sep 16 **
CHAT CLIENT
We used Dragnat's discord last expansion but he doesn't want to play with us any more. I have one so I'd suggest we use that:
https://discord.gg/x5GavC8

ELITE JERKS RANK
Just stating for people who haven't raided with us, this is a rank for raiders that will give them access to bank tabs for storing raid flasks, pots, etc, as well a guild repair allowance.

BE NICE TO EACH OTHER
We want to make good raid progression but we want to have fun doing it, that's our way. If you want to abuse the crap out of people for fucking up I'd suggest you join a less social guild that only cares about progression. The Elite Jerks raid team rank is sarcasm so take it easy.
DigitalDJ
cailo- wrote:
This expansion I would expect nothing less than a heroic clear of each tier of raiding content to be a bare minimum and a couple of mythic bosses.


Sounds good to me

cailo- wrote:
LOOT RULES
Core raider tanks get priority loot, it just helps with progression. Main spec > Off spec, though subject to loot council. Such a situation when a peice of loot will be given priority to someone would be if when someone who shows up to every raid wants someone will get the loot item over someone who has been to very few raids. If we get any pugs (I hope we don't need them) they will still get the loot if they roll highest, its only fair.


I don't have a problem with loot council per se. It's always seemed to work relatively well in previous Twelve raids, but with a number of newcomers I think it would be a good time to better solidify the scenarios in which loot council would be used, so no one gets salty. I can see sources of contention where we aren't consistent on how often someone shows up, or when items need to be prioritized for set bonuses. In particular, I could see people potentially getting salty when PUGs get their free roll honored but a guild member's does not. Honestly, none of that really bothers me because generally I know it's worked well and it's for progression of the raid group, but I think these things need to communicated properly.

cailo- wrote:
RAID COMPOSITION
This we will see on raid night. With as many people as we have around at the moment it's too hard to tell.


I know everything is up in the air. We won't really know what the deal is until people turn up, but have we got potential raid leaders, tanks and healers in mind?
Docilus
DigitalDJ wrote:
have we got potential raid leaders, tanks and healers in mind?

Some of the usual suspects, some who are not and some who we hope.
Enesis
cailo- wrote:
I've been told Vess is a very good raid leader and wants to lead. I'll need to chat with him.


Yep! just need to get him to commit to it! we spoke about it and I assisting him etc. But unfortunately even though the raid times are excellent, things come up and family gets in the road... … … I mean family comes first.
cailo-
So we have 36 people signed up and 11 tentative, bloody amazing effort. ……….So yes there will likely be sit outs if more than 30 people show up. To save my self from writing stuff in guild chat over and over I'll do as Riceballs told me that I do and refer everyone to this link.

Do I need to enchant gear, get flasks and buffs?
For the first few raids we won't make it mandatory but it will make you more favourable in raid selection, no guarantee.

How will people be selected?
Short answer/ We don't exactly know yet.

People we be selected on item level, likeliness for how committed they will be to raiding for the expansion, how prepared they are (have they enchanted stuff, come with raid food, flasks), viable specs eg you want to tank but you have a prepared dps offspec, and what ever else we can think of. Veterans will not necessarily be chosen over new friends but they will be at an advantage because we know what we are dealing with.

If you don't get chosen it doesn't mean you wont in the future. STAY ONLINE.someone will have to leave early and you will get in. We like committed players like you.

**Important** If people decide to whinge and bitch because they are on sitouts, we don't want to hear it. Just leave, go somewhere else, do what ever, we don't you here. We are fair, we want to bring everyone, we can't, if you can't understand that we won't ever pick you. If we remove 1 bad member from the guild it will make many many more people happy. This is a friendly guild and we want to keep it that way.

If there are enough people available for a second raid we wont stop you from creating it. We don't want to create a regular A team and a B team but we won't stop you from doing your own thing.

Any questions please ask. :D
cailo-
We're going to be running 1 raid as of Sunday.We want to take everyone but that isn't possible. There for I am going to do a Crysto and make a spreadsheet.

**Part 1**
I'll just ask if anyone would like to nominate to sit out for the night.

**Part 2**
I'd like to get some information from everyone that wants to raid. For every raid we need a good composition of tanks, healers, ranged dps and melee dps.
I'd like people to post here or whisper me in game your first preference, second preference, and so on, of what you like to play as.
Tell me:
T - for tank
M - for melee dps
R - for ranged dps
H - for healer
For example I would be HM because my first preference is to heal and second preference is to melee dps.
If you just want to tank thats fine you would just be T. If you are a druid that would do anything you might be all 4 so you could be RMTH.
Get it? Thats wonderful. Questions? Ask.

**Part 3**
TBA

So the...
By using a spreadsheet I can mark up peoples names who attended and I should be able to guarantee that the people who didn't attend the first raid of the week should be able to attend the second for the week. Everyone should get at least 1 raid per week.

Like this system? Don't like this system? Comment or your opinion will never go noticed. Thanks for your help.
Docilus
cailo- wrote:
I'd like people to post here or whisper me in game your first preference, second preference, and so on, of what you like to play as.

T - for Tank
M - for Melee DPS
R - for Ranged DPS
H - for Healer

For example I would be HM because my first preference is to Heal and second preference is to Melee DPS.
If you just want to tank thats fine you would just be T. If you are a druid that would do anything you might be all 4 so you could be RMTH.


Add this to your own Player Note on the in-game Guild Roster.
cailo-
Docilus wrote:
Add this to your own Player Note on the in-game Guild Roster.


Yep do this.

Also:
To ensure raiding success I have made new guild ranks. The Elite Jerks rank will be renamed to Veteran Raider who will be given priory raid access. I'll also add Member Raider and Member Reserve. Spare raid spots will be offered to these 2 ranks. A Member Reserve is a member who has sat out of a raid and will be given a priority raid spot in the next raid. Exceptional service from Members who raid will be considered for promotion to Veteran Raider.
Matey
You guys need to calm down. Who is complaining? Who is stressing out? As far as I'm concerned the raids went very well. We killed bosses, we had fun. One group got one less boss down - who cares? We have another raid night...

IMO the people who are complaining and creating drama should be the ones who have to sit out.
cailo-
Matey wrote:
You guys need to calm down. Who is complaining? Who is stressing out? As far as I'm concerned the raids went very well. We killed bosses, we had fun. One group got one less boss down - who cares? We have another raid night...

IMO the people who are complaining and creating drama should be the ones who have to sit out.


True I mean I thought things went well also. Maybe I over reacted to some feedback oh well we live and we learn. :)
Tristen
Matey wrote:
You guys need to calm down. Who is complaining? Who is stressing out? As far as I'm concerned the raids went very well. We killed bosses, we had fun. One group got one less boss down - who cares? We have another raid night...

IMO the people who are complaining and creating drama should be the ones who have to sit out.


This. Seriously wtf.

Raiding hasn't even been out for a week yet and there's posts about this. Why are we making just 1 raid ? it's normal and I thought things went well having the guild split across 2 teams.

I haven't spoken to Cailo about his post so this is nothing but assumptions from my behalf.

Is it because we went on a members drive and now we're over flowing with people and you don't want them to leave ? Because no matter what you do we will leave people through out this expansion due to raiding and many other things. Don't make decisions like this to try and please everyone and make things "fair" to please the masses. It will only ever end up in drama. Just keep rolling with two teams while we have the numbers. When we want to progress into Heroics then worry about this shit.

Above everything else, you have to put the core members first, those that have stuck around for a long time and those that have just returned. They have been the heart of this guild for a long time and those are the ones you need to put first.
Tristen
Matey wrote:
You guys need to calm down. Who is complaining? Who is stressing out? As far as I'm concerned the raids went very well. We killed bosses, we had fun. One group got one less boss down - who cares? We have another raid night...

IMO the people who are complaining and creating drama should be the ones who have to sit out.


This. Seriously wtf.

Raiding hasn't even been out for a week yet and there's posts about this. Why are we making just 1 raid ? it's normal and I thought things went well having the guild split across 2 teams.

I haven't spoken to Cailo about his post so this is nothing but assumptions from my behalf.

Is it because we went on a members drive and now we're over flowing with people and you don't want them to leave ? Because no matter what you do we will leave people through out this expansion due to raiding and many other things. Don't make decisions like this to try and please everyone and make things "fair" to please the masses. It will only ever end up in drama. Just keep rolling with two teams while we have the numbers. When we want to progress into Heroics then worry about this shit.

Above everything else, you have to put the core members first, those that have stuck around for a long time and those that have just returned. They have been the heart of this guild for a long time and those are the ones you need to put first.
cailo-
First up there is no drama. :P

I tell you what we live in a world now where everything is suppose to go perfectly on the first try. I call it the American Idol era, the era of instant super starts. Life doesn't work like that, you work at it, you develop it, you make it better.

The first night was going to be the toughest because we going to have teething problems after the rapid expansion of our numbers. We know with new progress comes new problems, and that problem has come with too many people for one raid.

The thing is though: the first night went bloody well above expectations. Still, we can make it even better. I listen to feedback and try to make calls on that feedback.

I think we should only have 1 group. I think veterans should get some preference. I think a system needs to be developed give a chance to new people. We'll try again on Sunday and we make it even better again.

If you try to develop an organisation when things are going bad its already too late. The right time to develop an organisation is when times are good like they are now. Just don't forget, its development, its not final, its never final, we'll always try to get even better.

Isn't it great how we can have such open conversation here? Drama my ass. Grow a set of nuts and face your problems head on and fight for something better even if it is at the cost of sleep or stress because its worth it.

We're going to the moon lads.
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