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Melg
cailo- wrote:
Please don't lock this thread lets let people spew it all out so we can all start feeling better again. Man I've never felt so angry from a guild thing before, its all so fucking stupid.


Most people are kind of over it now Cailo, we've all said what we think, decisions have been made and the raid group is moving forward doing our own thing now. Theres nothing left to say except peoples petty bullshit, which is better left unsaid.
kiral
Melg wrote:
cailo- wrote:
Please don't lock this thread lets let people spew it all out so we can all start feeling better again. Man I've never felt so angry from a guild thing before, its all so fucking stupid.


Most people are kind of over it now Cailo, we've all said what we think, decisions have been made and the raid group is moving forward doing our own thing now. Theres nothing left to say except peoples petty bullshit, which is better left unsaid.


By closing this thread you're stifling the little activity that the forums receive, and for what benefit? It's like the argument style of a young child when they cover their ears and yell "nanananana I can't hear you". Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you guys want to foster an environment where everyone has a voice?

Petty bullshit is better to be aired out publicly, so people can realise that it is actually petty/illogical. The last thing you want is for all the negativity to be moved into private conversations, which only make the negativity fester away, and eventually result in another burst of drama.

If you're getting offended by the thread, don't read it. If you feel the need to vent about a problem or issue, make a post.
Shrewmkin
kiral wrote:
Melg wrote:
cailo- wrote:
Please don't lock this thread lets let people spew it all out so we can all start feeling better again. Man I've never felt so angry from a guild thing before, its all so fucking stupid.


Most people are kind of over it now Cailo, we've all said what we think, decisions have been made and the raid group is moving forward doing our own thing now. Theres nothing left to say except peoples petty bullshit, which is better left unsaid.


By closing this thread you're stifling the little activity that the forums receive, and for what benefit? It's like the argument style of a young child when they cover their ears and yell "nanananana I can't hear you". Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you guys want to foster an environment where everyone has a voice?

Petty bullshit is better to be aired out publicly, so people can realise that it is actually petty/illogical. The last thing you want is for all the negativity to be moved into private conversations, which only make the negativity fester away, and eventually result in another burst of drama.

If you're getting offended by the thread, don't read it. If you feel the need to vent about a problem or issue, make a post.


Lack of a gif. Kiral is comprised.
Hobz
Anyone seen the new Batman vs Superman movie? Wondering if it's worth seeing at the cinema...
Sugarpuff
I am copy pasting what Rose has posted on her FB group due to the fact that not everyone can read it and Hobz cannot defend himself.

Sometimes you just have to say it like it is.…………….
So I've had some time to consider how I want to respond to the attacks made about myself and Exit Strategy on the Twelve forums. I can tell you right now, that my first reaction was extreme anger and revulsion at the level of disrespect displayed. Not to mention the level of ignorance of both the truth and the laws by which we are expected to abide.


So to make this a hell of a lot shorter than it would otherwise be, I'm going to dot point a few facts. I am also going to edit out the majority of the expletives and explicit comments I would otherwise like to make regarding my personal opinion of certain people. This post is long enough as it is.


- The raid size limitation I set was 25, not 15. So were I in fact excluding 10-15 Twelvians you would have had to make your own raid anyway. The suggestion to further reduce the number of raiders to a maximum of 20 came from within Twelve itself. In which case an extra 15 raiders still would have put us over the limit and another raid would have been needed. This is simple maths, deal with it.


- Several of my raiders play on computers that did not cost in excess of $2000. Those computers are therefore not capable of the demands large raids may impose on them. I did and will continue to limit raid size in order to retain key raiders. Raiders who are incapable of reacting to mechanics die. We saw this happen.


- There was no drama within Exit Strategy until my people started complaining to me about some of the attitudes displayed by members of Twelve, so to label what has happened "the Exit Strategy drama" displays a level of disrespect towards my guild that is uncalled for.


- Many of you do not realise that I am in constant communication with multiple people during raid. Between pulls my chat box is filled with purple, blue and green. On that raid night, one of those blues was Magpie. From the moment Hobz first started whispering and for days after, Magpie felt the need to apologise for the behaviour displayed by a guild member. Something that should never have been needed, EVER!


- Hobz has justified his disrespectful attitude towards me by calling me ignorant. Thankyou Hobz for displaying your own brand of ignorance. Hobz assumed that because he has killed mythic bosses this expansion that he is more experienced than I am. Research is good. Armoury and wowprogress exist. I note that wowprogress designates Hobz's toon in Drunken Raiders on Caelstraz as his main, not his toons in Twelve on Frostmourne.


- Mythic raiders (you know the ones in the top guilds) have regularly admitted that the strategies developed for mythic, often don't work well in normal/heroic. So, I develop strats that take into account the abilities of the group I am working with. As the ability level of the group improves tweaks are made. If you are incapable of adapting to the strat we are using, you are not as good a raider as you think you are. I noted several people who were in fact incapable of following simple instructions, preferring to rigidly stick to their strat despite the fact that their actions were in fact causing difficulties for the rest of the group.


- I will never (and i do mean never) remove a player from a normal/heroic raid solely because they are not up to the standards expected of mythic raiders. Had a pug suggested this, I would have removed them from group without any remorse whatsoever. When a Twelve member suggested it I referred the issue to a Twelve officer to deal with.


- Apparently, multiple people were complaining that I'm "a pain in the ass" and that I don't ever listen. Firstly, it's a little hard to listen to someone who doesn't have the guts to actually say anything. Secondly, I shouldn't have to remind you that just because I choose to not to do something the way someone wants does not mean I'm not listening. It means I disagree with the viewpoint. If you are unable to cope with someone disagreeing with you... grow the fuck up!


- I did not cause a division in Twelve. Twelve has been more than capable of doing that to itself. Blaming anyone outside of your own guild for strife within the guild is... well it's kind of ignorant and gutless really. Own your bullshit, instead of shoveling it onto the people around you.


- I actually hope that Twelve succeeds. There are people who I like, who have chosen to raid with their guild. That is and always has been, their choice and their right to decide. Such a pity that others appear incapable of understanding or supporting this.


- Hobz labelled himself "Hobz the Wankernator". I don't think I need to say anymore.


- While I appreciate the comments made late in the night by Cailo, the truth of the matter is that there are some things where as guild master, the buck stops with there. The way in which people outside of your guild are treated and how you deal with it being a major one. Another is the way you deal with internal conflict. People are entitled to not like each. Dismissing someones feelings and telling them they would fell differently "if.." is disrespectful.


I'm going to finish this up with a quote from lawanswers.com.au in regards to cyberbullying under Australian Law. It seems there are people who need reminding that treating people with respect isn't just decent, it's the law!
"The offence is considered cyberbullying when it involves:
1. Using the Internet or a phone in a harassing, threatening, or offensive manner: If these devices are used to spread messages or posts which have the potential to be viewed as offensive and can cause anger, outrage, disgust or humiliation, the penalty can be up to 3 years in jail.
5. Defamation: Publishing false information via the Internet to cause them serious harm is an offence punishable by 3 years in jail."
bladearts
Are you really suggesting what's happening here is against the law? Come on. That was a shit way to end your post.

edit: shit way for a facebook post. Considering whining to the cops over WoW drama makes me laugh.
Last edited by bladearts on Mar 24th, 2016, 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Melg
Is she serious??

Id like to know where she thinks we are all spending our days bitching about Exit Strategy and her? If she has an account on these forums in order to view the thread, why doesnt she post her opinions here instead of hiding behind a private Facebook group where no one can see her being an idiot? Apart from people noting Rose wasnt interested in listening to anyone elses opinions and that both sides made a poor decision in regards to the raid group size and split, what other things have even been said here? This thread is to discuss Twelve and Twelve members, not ES. Nobody cares what theyre up to now, we have our own group to worry about.

If someone has killed more bosses than you on a higher difficulty, they have more experience than you. Theres no debate on that. If you have worked in a job for 3 years and someone else has only been there 2, then by definition you have more experience. To try and say Hobz opinions on strategy are invalid just because he is now playing an alt is dumb. And since when does a decent GM/RL invite 25 people who are raiding on potatoes to a raid? You dont have to have a $2000 PC to play WoW, it runs on almost anything. If she believes that they cant dodge mechanics because of their computers, thats amazing.

I dont really think anyone gave a shit about what Rose was up to with her little raid group, I didnt even know who she was up until a couple of weeks ago. But I dare say lots of people are going to shit on her now. The cyberbullying definition is a nice touch. Hilarious.

Cant wait to see what Hobz writes.
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