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Genuine article

I'd like you to imagine something, there are two arches - let's call them portals (like a Stargate). Actually, fuck it, let's just imagine that there are two Stargates.

These gates are placed relatively close to each other, for the purposes of this experiment. You switch on the first gate and the second one lights up. The subject walks into the first gate and appears out the other gate. Alright, that's pretty straightforward, even though the physics behind it is completely theoretical.

My question is, if you step fully into the portal and walk out the other side, is the you that exited the portal the same you that entered?

The matter displacement and re-constitution of your being would have to be using some process manipulating Physical Information across the two portals. Which means that your body would be disassembled into it's most basic quantum properties, stored as information and then this information is sent over to the other portal, where the information is read, interpreted and then executed upon.

By all accounts, it's you on a biological and genetic level - but would it be the original? The definition of consciousness is one that has been widely debated by the Scientific community, and it is not quantifiable as a subject of study. The only evident "truth" of consciousness is the awareness tied with the phrase "Cogito Ergo Sum" (I think, therefore I am). I think it's quite mysterious that the abstract notion of, "my own personal identity" is actually impossible to define in hard scientific terms. It becomes a more challenging subject because the notions of one's soul, ego and personality becomes a fundamental part of social interaction.

Would the "conscious self" survive the breakdown of the physical form into fundamental particles - as it's transmitted into the second portal? If it doesn't, but your physical self is replicated perfectly in this space-time facsimile, did you really "die" to begin with?
Well it depends on the operation of the devices.

There are two potential ways this is achieved:

1) Wormholes. The theoretical type that bend space and time so you'd literally just be walking from point A to point B.

2) Matter "transportation". What these ones would actually do is scan in every atom in your body, destroy your body, then produce a replica at the destination gate. You're effectively being cloned but since your original body is being destroyed at the origin gate, you're the only you left alive, even if you're not the original you. In this theoretical[ly sweet] transportation system, the entity that exits the destination gate will have every atom the same as you which [again, theoretically] means they will think, move and behave the same way as the entity that entered the origin gate.

The main thing here is that all of this is super theoretical and that's why it's only covered by science fiction. I don't see any reason why there can't be other theoretical versions of these devices where the original is not destroyed since all we're doing is long distance cloning.

To build a Stargate system I guess we just need two things: 1) the ability to 3D print an exact replica of a human 2) the ability to send a shitload of data really quickly across a great distance so that it can then be 3D printed at another location.

I guess we're getting closer to "teleportation" every day.
We aren't 1 life but about 4 trillion cells functioning together to make us work, but I feel just one consciousness. So what is life?This was going to be a topic for my universe thread so I'll keep it short here.

What is time with out an observer to experience it? Is time and a conscious the same thing? If that is true life would be connected by time and the only reason why we feel different to each other because we are not wired to each other like in some kind of a star trek borg collective (which in the show they have trouble distinguishing their individuality when they do). So then, it wouldn't matter if we were teleported, destroyed and recreated or what ever, as long as we have the same memories we would feel as if nothing has changed. Even through out our lifetimes we don't finish with the same material we started with, would being destroyed by teleportation be any different?
Sorry Shaunz' there really isn't a way of answering your questions without knowing some fundamental truths about the universe or at least the human brain...

It goes along the lines of...
"how much of my physical matter is me?"

or rather
"if i could put assemble a human (and brain) from a bunch of quark and gluons identical to mine would that even be me"

maybe even...
"if I was to dismantle my brain on a planck scale systematically, how much could I remove before I stop being me"

I dispute that consciousness is not quantifiable. Just because there's something we don't know it doesn't mean it can never be known. For all you know Descartes is a complete idiot: Cogito Ergo Sum may very well be a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy much the same as these guys who posits consciousness works through quantum phenomena (one proves the others wrong).

Not all is lost though: we're getting there albeit slowly. Recently there's been a breakthrough in neuroscience much about how breaking DNA in our neurons express memory. I'm sure in (nondeterministic polynomial) time we'll figure out the brain, amongst other things like dark energy, dark matter, and whether or not spoon can successfully make a clone army to fight cailo's droid army.
Big Hero 6 had it as another 'place' on the other side of the portal. So it is more like opening a door and just walking through.
Spoon wrote:
1) Wormholes

2) Matter "transportation"

I think these are good points to consider. I see a wormhole like in the Portal games, where it's literally bending space time to create a door that is in the same place at two locations, so nothing is lost, just the bending of space. Or, alternatively, in the Stargate theory, you'd just be travelling at immeasurable speed through a corridor. You'd still remain yourself here.

Matter transportation, like in Star Trek is where I think you'd start considering whether you're really still you afterwards.

To which, I don't really have an answer, as it's a really good question to pose.
Consider this.

We make a wormhole portal or matter transportation machine.

The first monkey test subject goes through, and comes out the other side.

It isn't turned inside out and gargling up blood, but instead acts like a monkey.

It remembers its name and can still sling shit at the onlookers.

Great success! Now for human trials.

Bob walks through and comes out the other side.

"I made it!" says Bob! "I'm still me!"

Great success! Everyone cheers.

But is it really the same Bob that went through?

It's an exact replica of his matter, it knows who it is and acts the same, reacts the same.

But is it the same driver behind the wheel inside of him?

Or is it just this new 'body' manifesting itself a consciousness or some form of automation?

We are but a sum of all our parts. Every action, reaction, memory and thought shape our very being.

And this Bob is an exact replica to the Bob that got destroyed, down to the individual atoms that store those memories.

Of course it would know who it is, act the same, and react the same.

Now imagine if every human on the planet went through a portal and seemed fine after they came out the other end.

Would we truly ever know if they're the same consciousness driving them?

Would we ever feel like its safe to step through ourselves?

For all we know, this consciousness you are experiencing life through could cease to exist the second you step through.

We'd never actually be sure it was safe.

Now I think that is a bit scary.
Spoon wrote:
I don't see any reason why there can't be other theoretical versions of these [matter transportation] devices where the original is not destroyed since all we're doing is long distance cloning.

This happens (minor spoilers) in the recent tv show Dark Matter link and it's pretty cool seeing how it's changed/changing the universe the show is in.
I am with Spoon on this.

The difference between 'bending' time/space to arrive at another place is completely different to 'matter transportation', I would say that the later form of transport would indeed destroy/create replica and it would not be you/me
I don't think we need clarification on which method shaunz was talking about. He made it quite clear he was talking about the fax machine method.

Anyway, if we could do it, firstly are we destroying the original or simply scanning it and making a copy? If destroying are we moving the exact atoms to the new location?

And when its reconstructed I'd assume it's heart would need to be restarted. In any case it would be just a copy of yourself if the atoms are not transported. It would be exactly the same in the first instances of its life but would soon deviate down a different path and become someone different, just like we all do when we make a decision.

If you went back and made a different decision when you left school you wouldn't be the same person you are today just like the copy wouldn't be the same person soon after it arrives in the new location
He was talking about Stargates and portals and then about re-assembling matter so I'd say making the distinction is quite important to give the correct context to what we're talking about.
Spoon wrote:
He was talking about Stargates and portals and then about re-assembling matter so I'd say making the distinction is quite important to give the correct context to what we're talking about.

He's still talking about the same thing. There's two gates. One is a scanner the other a builder. He never mentions anything about wormholes or bending spacetime other than "lets call them stargates/portals". His question is specific to rebuilding yourself on the other side.

If it's a wormhole and you actually travel through you're obviously still the same person so what's to discuss?
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