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Darkshaunz
Jiminy wrote:
Darkshaunz wrote:
I'm curious here, Jim.

You mentioned that you don't believe in economical egalitarianism, but you believe in equal rights.

I would like to know, what exactly do you mean by equal rights? If you could be more specific, perhaps you could list down what rights you have, that another person should have, with no exceptions.


I should have worded that sentence better. the response was in regards to Socialism. So I believe everyone should have the same rights as anybody else, but I do not believe that everyone deserves an equal share of the pie, or more of the pie, or free pie simply because they are skinnier.

By "equal rights" I mean whatever right I have, anybody else should have. Other than that, i'm not sure what you're asking for? An example would be marriage. I have the right to do it, but some people do not.

However, I don't subscribe to the further notion that everyone is equal in worth etc that others seem to.


That's a good enough response, thanks.
Jiminy
Fun wrote:
Jiminy wrote:
Fun wrote:
Jiminy wrote:
Neifelheim wrote:

Comrade Jiminy ~will~ embrace the hammer and sickle one day.

But today is not that day.



Ha! Unlikely. I despise socialism and communism is a pipe dream. I actually want my country to get stronger, not turn into a giant homeless shelter.


Why do you despise socialism? We're basically a socialist democracy as it is despite Abbott's failing overtures. Government subsidised health care, education and robust social welfare services.




Here is what I don't like and never will like. On a fundamental level, I don't believe we should continue to support those which contribute nothing to the wider group. I don't believe in equality. It's a ridiculous concept. I believe in equal rights, but not that we are equal. And I certainly don't believe you solve wealth inequality by simply giving people money.

Fun wrote:
What else do you want your tax dollars going towards?


Tldr: Infrastructure

I've said it before, but i'll say it again so you don't need to actually bother to read anything i've written earlier. Infrastructure. Roads, airports, tunnels, train lines, hospitals, schools. This is priority number one for me. Because everyone benefits, especially the people who need social


I'm curious as to how you think that works at a State, Federal and even Local level? In terms of the provision and funding. As far as I was aware (could be incorrect) the federal government can only provide a fraction of that, and that the majority is provided at a state level.

As for social services, there is a point to which I agree with you but you've just oversimplified so much of it, intentionally or otherwise.

Do you think it isn't financially prudent to support out of work skilled workers or students who through support will eventually become (in the vast majority of cases) productive members of taxable society?

Do you sincerely think that a small government model like some periods the US is the best option? Considering their weak social policies they still have for the most part atrocious infrastructure (rail, road, school, everything).

I agree that there are genuine parasites in our communities who feed off social services like the festering ticks that they are, but I for one am thankfully for the capacity to study and still be somewhat supported by the government in order to do so.


I'm aware of how state and federal funding work and firmly believe that in regards to large scale infrastructure projects, things need to change, drastically. The way we handle our funds between state and federal is hamstringing us.

In any case, I thought we were discussing politics in general, not just federal, because that's how I was commenting.

I've oversimplified it because we'd have to sit down over a box of beer to discuss exactly which types of social welfare I would change and which I wouldn't. I'm not against all social welfare, i just want to see something for my money, and giving $ a week to every 16-22 year old kid on the central coast so they can lie on the beach everyday while claiming they're studying (read:some retarded tafe beauty course) is not it.

But paying the entire fee for people doing nursing degrees? Yes. Because we have a health crisis involving a lack of nurses right now.

I think it's prudent to support out of work, skilled workers with something like a job. Where is the snowy mountains hydro electric scheme of our time? Why can't we give them a job instead of cash? We need schools fixed, we need median strips mowed... There is no shortage of work to be done in this country.

I don't think the US is the best example here. for 316 million people you are talking about the world's largest economy. It's because of their infrastructure that it's that big. I would certainly not call it atrocious. Their national highway network is one of the best in the world. The new york subway is second to none.

I don't know enough about their education system to comment, but I think their social issues are more due to shitty minimum wage, the need for tax reform and a growing wealth gap that is spiralling out of control.

But really, lets just leave the US alone. It's far too different to compare anything really.
Last edited by Jiminy on Feb 5th, 2015, 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Docilus
Jiminy wrote:
Where is the snowy mountains hydro electric scheme of our time? Why can't we give them a job instead of cash? We need schools fixed, we need median strips mowed... There is no shortage of work to be done in this country.

This isn't possible in our society as it stands now. Nasty little things like insurance, qualifications and OS&H keep cropping up, denying us the ability to put un-skilled workers into places that they really shouldn't be, but really need fixing.

Jiminy wrote:
But paying the entire fee for people doing nursing degrees? Yes. Because we have a health crisis involving a lack of nurses right now.

If only we could pick and choose, amirite?
Matey
Jiminy wrote:
I just want to see something for my money, and giving $ a week to every 16-22 year old kid on the central coast so they can lie on the beach everyday while claiming they're studying (read:some retarded tafe beauty course) is not it.

But paying the entire fee for people doing nursing degrees? Yes. Because we have a health crisis involving a lack of nurses right now.


This actually sparked something in me which I feel could open up a whole new can of beans. Kids these days are fucked, including a lot of our generation. We want to fucking write useless shit poetry and fuck around all day, not actually get down to it. We have too much choice? This has been discussed thoroughly elsewhere, so let's not get in to it. But I guess our 'freedom' has also kind of fucked over the hard workers.
Neifelheim
Matey wrote:
This actually sparked something in me which I feel could open up a whole new can of beans. Kids these days are fucked, including a lot of our generation. We want to fucking write useless shit poetry and fuck around all day, not actually get down to it. We have too much choice? This has been discussed thoroughly elsewhere, so let's not get in to it. But I guess our 'freedom' has also kind of fucked over the hard workers.


You know I think the complaint about "kids these days" is as old as mankind itself.

Pretty sure Tribal elders and Greek Philosophers were bitching about lazy, directionless and disrespectful youth. Maybe it's a symptom of youth itself rather then of our times.
Fun
Matey wrote:
Jiminy wrote:
I just want to see something for my money, and giving $ a week to every 16-22 year old kid on the central coast so they can lie on the beach everyday while claiming they're studying (read:some retarded tafe beauty course) is not it.

But paying the entire fee for people doing nursing degrees? Yes. Because we have a health crisis involving a lack of nurses right now.


This actually sparked something in me which I feel could open up a whole new can of beans. Kids these days are fucked, including a lot of our generation. We want to fucking write useless shit poetry and fuck around all day, not actually get down to it. We have too much choice? This has been discussed thoroughly elsewhere, so let's not get in to it. But I guess our 'freedom' has also kind of fucked over the hard workers.


Your avatar has never been more appropriate than now.
Matey
Neifelheim wrote:
You know I think the complaint about "kids these days" is as old as mankind itself.

Pretty sure Tribal elders and Greek Philosophers were bitching about lazy, directionless and disrespectful youth. Maybe it's a symptom of youth itself rather then of our times.


Yes, BUT. I'm recognising it within myself and my peers - and acknowledging it. Like I said, there was already a thread about this (something like "why gen Y are a bunch of cunts").
Jiminy
Docilus wrote:
Jiminy wrote:
Where is the snowy mountains hydro electric scheme of our time? Why can't we give them a job instead of cash? We need schools fixed, we need median strips mowed... There is no shortage of work to be done in this country.


This isn't possible in our society as it stands now. Nasty little things like insurance, qualifications and OS&H keep cropping up, denying us the ability to put un-skilled workers into places that they really shouldn't be, but really need fixing.


I know. It sucks. I bitched about it in my first post in here. How covering ourselves in bubble wrap and lowering the standard of our whole society to suit the most moronic people is crippling our progress. When some dumbass injures themselves doing something stupid, we have to change a law.

That drunk 19 year old who swam out and climbed a barge crane to jump off and die two days ago for example. What stupid ass safety legislation will be passed in response to that? You won't hear about it, but the crane operators will. And the prices to hire a crane will subtley go up. Building costs will get a little more expensive as the job will take longer because of the barrier scafolding they'll have to erect now... Or something. All because of an idiot. We need to stop doing this.

We need to accept as a society that idiots will kill themselves. Stupid kids will fail school and accidents and mistakes happen. This thought process that we have to protect these people needs to end, because it ends up lowering our standards in the long run.

Docilus wrote:
Jiminy wrote:
Jiminy wrote:
But paying the entire fee for people doing nursing degrees? Yes. Because we have a health crisis involving a lack of nurses right now.


If only we could pick and choose, amirite?


We pick and choose what types of health services medicare will subsidise. There is no reason why we can't do it with education.
Jiminy
Neifelheim wrote:
Matey wrote:
This actually sparked something in me which I feel could open up a whole new can of beans. Kids these days are fucked, including a lot of our generation. We want to fucking write useless shit poetry and fuck around all day, not actually get down to it. We have too much choice? This has been discussed thoroughly elsewhere, so let's not get in to it. But I guess our 'freedom' has also kind of fucked over the hard workers.


You know I think the complaint about "kids these days" is as old as mankind itself.

Pretty sure Tribal elders and Greek Philosophers were bitching about lazy, directionless and disrespectful youth. Maybe it's a symptom of youth itself rather then of our times.


I definitely agree with this. Once you get over 25 you start having issues relating to the sheer idiocy that is adolescence and early 20's. Even looking back at yourself makes you cringe. They definitely would have thought their kids were lay about no hopers back then too.

But having said that, I think it's far worse and different now. Back then the kid would have been tending to the animals or the crops from about 10 or less. They'd be training with weapons at 13-14 or as soon as they were strong enough to lift a sword or throw a spear.

What do our kids have to do lol?

I actually think too much choice in an issue in western society. It's overwhelming. I think it has a lot to do with the rates of depression. I go to third world countries and think geez, look at this shit hole. but their people are smiling. And not just a little bit, ear to ear! All the time! What are they so happy about with their shitty, simple life? And then I think, it wouldn't be so bad to just live in a hut and fish all day for your dinner and that's it. Fuck your wife, play with your kids and go fishing. Makes you wonder.
Hunterbob
Exactly right.

I think in relation to the abundance of choice laid out before kids these days, is the inability to see them for a lot of kids. Most kids and even grown ups I see when I go into the city are all focussed on their phones in their own little world.

Education probably seems unnecessary to a lot of kids as they think they know it all thanks to the internet and grow up stupid. I can't imagine how hard it is teaching this generation, when all they want to do is play games and "chat" to their friends. I'd confiscate phones at the start of lessons if it was me.

And I would absolutely love to just fish each day for my food, fuck my wife and play with my kids. Politics would be less of an issue for that kind of lifestyle.
kiral
Hunterbob wrote:
And I would absolutely love to just fish each day for my food, fuck my wife and play with my kids. Politics would be less of an issue for that kind of lifestyle.


There will be politics at every level of life. For example some local elder has decided that your neighbour is allowed to shit upstream on your river. So now all his shit is building up out the front of your hut and all your fish are covered in your neighbours poo.

The reason your neighbour got the privilege was because he gave the elder his oldest daughter. Your oldest daughter is butt ugly, so you can't compete. So now you're pissed at your local elder (read: politician).
Hunterbob
kiral wrote:
Hunterbob wrote:
And I would absolutely love to just fish each day for my food, fuck my wife and play with my kids. Politics would be less of an issue for that kind of lifestyle.


There will be politics at every level of life. For example some local elder has decided that your neighbour is allowed to shit upstream on your river. So now all his shit is building up out the front of your hut and all your fish are covered in your neighbours poo.

The reason your neighbour got the privilege was because he gave the elder his oldest daughter. Your oldest daughter is butt ugly, so you can't compete. So now you're pissed at your local elder (read: politician).

Tribe life: Kill the neighbour, acquire second wife.
Shrewmkin
Hunterbob wrote:
kiral wrote:
Hunterbob wrote:
And I would absolutely love to just fish each day for my food, fuck my wife and play with my kids. Politics would be less of an issue for that kind of lifestyle.


There will be politics at every level of life. For example some local elder has decided that your neighbour is allowed to shit upstream on your river. So now all his shit is building up out the front of your hut and all your fish are covered in your neighbours poo.

The reason your neighbour got the privilege was because he gave the elder his oldest daughter. Your oldest daughter is butt ugly, so you can't compete. So now you're pissed at your local elder (read: politician).

Tribe life: Kill the neighbour, acquire second wife.


You just failed the Tribe Life.
Hunterbob
Shrewmkin wrote:
Hunterbob wrote:
kiral wrote:
Hunterbob wrote:
And I would absolutely love to just fish each day for my food, fuck my wife and play with my kids. Politics would be less of an issue for that kind of lifestyle.


There will be politics at every level of life. For example some local elder has decided that your neighbour is allowed to shit upstream on your river. So now all his shit is building up out the front of your hut and all your fish are covered in your neighbours poo.

The reason your neighbour got the privilege was because he gave the elder his oldest daughter. Your oldest daughter is butt ugly, so you can't compete. So now you're pissed at your local elder (read: politician).

Tribe life: Kill the neighbour, acquire second wife.


You just failed the Tribe Life.

That's probably winning. He shits in my river, I shit in his soul.

To be fair though, I'd fish in the sea. Bigger fish and I could have a boat.
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